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Re: Plant-Bashing, Robert Plant, Apologists... Warning: Long Post Ahead

Please all, do not associate me with wither a Pant go or no go. I just tell
it like it is.

I like the guy, I somewhat like his solo stuff, I do not take sides. I am a
Jimmy Page fanatic. With Jimmy doing NOTHING, I am a silent partner.
Wallowing i my gloom, because
a guy i respect, ad,ire, adore so dearly has putten himself not on a
pedestal, but on a friggin love lost can't live without him toadstool and it
just kills me.

If Plant was really a friend of Jimmy's he'd give him another slug like he
dig in '98 and tell him to fucking get on with it.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Hevensone" <nhevensone@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "For Badgeholders Only" <zeppelin@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 3:28 PM
Subject: Plant-Bashing, Robert Plant, Apologists... Warning: Long Post Ahead

> So here comes a post from me.  So I guess you all know where this is
> going.  I'm gonna line myself right up with Steve and Nech and the
> others behind them.  Everyone also knows that this is going to be an
> exceptionally long post (I'm always long-winded when it comes to
> Plant), so I hope you have your coffee, or your alcohol, or maybe even
> your dinner with you while you're reading.  If not, at least put on a
> Zeppelin bootleg.  Might I suggest Texas Pop Festival (been on my
> playlist for a while now lately... fucking LOVE this show!)?  Might
> actually be over before your done reading... :D
> Anyways, on to the soap-box:
> Eddie, I'm not gonna tell you to "fuck off" or "go fuck yourself" and
> I'm not going to call you names because I've never met you, you seem
> like a cool guy, and as much as I disagree with you, I respect your
> opinion.
> But this was uncalled for:
> -------------------------------
> I must be reading different articles to everyone else.
> Plant to me has always been very clear to me.  Maybe I'm just smarter
> than everyone else or maybe I'm just as big a ass as Plant is (in the eyes
> of most people on this list it seems.)
> He said it was a one off he said he wasn't against more shows but only i
> f it was for something special (sorry fans have to realize you aren't that
> special.  Don't like it go cry to your mommy) and he said doesn't want to
> be a rock star anymore.
> Sounds clear to me always have.
> Of course I'm not drudging up what he might have said in oh uh 1989 or
> ever.
> Things move on but apparently not on this list.
> Eddie
> -------------------------------
> In response I'd have to quote Steve and say leave FBO and go join
> ManicNirvana.  Actually... no.  Leave FBO for the official site.
> 'Cause, truth is, the official site is actually a Robert Plant forum
> in disguise.  Despite the fact that I respect some of those members
> (almost all of whom also belong to Planet Zeppelin and may or may not
> belong to FBO), I am sick and tired of their consistent desire to
> flame the ashes of anyone who DARES bash Plant over there.
> Lee, you said this:
> -------------------------------
> I refuse to accept the mantle of "Plant Apologist" as that implies I
> think the man has done something wrong.  Yes he has done things I
> don't like and wish were different but that doesn't mean they were
> wrong for him.
> -------------------------------
> This is not what makes you a Plant apologist.  What makes you a Plant
> apologist is if your willing to write off his remarks (such as when he
> called Led Zeppelin a boy band, or his rather childish write-off of
> Page, Jones, and Jason as "some people have to eat" or whatever he
> said) as "oh, it's just that Plant humor only us Plant-fans get.  You
> know, an 'in-crowd' thing."  I would not call you personally an
> apologist, though, because even you admit that Plant has done things
> you don't like.  Plant apologists usually don't.  If they can't find
> an already existing reason to like every single little thing Plant
> says and/or does, they will invent their own reason, no matter how
> ridiculous it may seem to everyone else (except, of course, for other
> Plant apologists, who will eat it up).  Using this criteria, I can
> surely call Eddie an apologist, but not you, Lee.
> Now, is an apologist a bad thing?
> No!  I am a PROUD Led Zeppelin-apologist, and you know what?  I will
> GLADLY apologize for Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones, and maybe even
> Jason Bonham, too, if I have to.  In fact, I'd say every single Led
> Zeppelin fan in the world is an apologist because don't we all find
> ways to forgive Led Zeppelin for (let's face it) blatantly ripping off
> past artists without crediting them?  Come on, people.  How many times
> have you tried to explain away things like Dazed and Confused, Black
> Mountain Side, and Whole Lotta Love?  Be honest.  I do it every time.
> Whenever I go to Amazon and see a review on a Led Zeppelin album about
> how Jimmy Page/Led Zeppelin ripped off Jake Holmes, Bert Jansch (or
> was it Davey Graham?), Willie Dixon, etc, I proudly respond (even if I
> see it in 2008 and the review is from 1999) explaining it away,
> apologizing for Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin.  We all do it, even if we
> don't mean to do it.
> So, Eddie, I, personally, don't fault you for being a Plant apologist.
>  I accuse you of being one, yes, as do Steve and others.  It may even
> get on my nerves (like it does at .com).  But that doesn't make it
> bad.  So you like Plant.  So you respect him.  More power to you.
> But can't you also, at the very least, understand that not everybody
> shares your like and respect of Plant?  What makes everyone hate Plant
> apologists like yourself is your constant desire to FLAME THE ASHES of
> anyone and everyone who bashes Plant.
> Do you know why I bash Plant?  Because the Plant of Led Zeppelin and
> the Plant of the solo years are two utterly and completely different
> people.  The Plant of Led Zeppelin couldn't see doing anything else
> (he said so), whereas the solo-years-Plant "supposedly" wants nothing
> to do with it (I say "supposedly" because he does tend to try and cash
> in on Led Zeppelin despite claiming to move on).  Honestly, if I had a
> time machine, I would find a way to lock Led Zeppelin's Plant and
> Post-Zeppelin's Plant in an empty room just to see what happens (two
> outcomes: 1. one of them is killed or 2. we finally get our Led
> Zeppelin reunion.  I'd bet on the first outcome... sorry).
> The Post-Zeppelin Plant severely pisses me off, mainly because he
> claims to be moving on, and yet he sits in a past from even before Led
> Zeppelin!  He claims to be moving on, and yet there is he is, playing
> horrible (yes, horrible) reworks of Zeppelin classics (yes, I know, so
> does Page and Jones and even Jason, but none of them have ever claimed
> to have "moved on," and their versions aren't bad reworks).  He claims
> to be moving on, but his outing with Alison Krauss (and I actually
> LIKE it!) is covers from pre-Zeppelin, Page/Plant (Please Read the
> Letter), and not surprisingly, Led Zeppelin (though I must admit I
> have a certain affinity for the way Alison sings the female part of
> Battle of Evermore.  In fact, if anyone who has a very large
> collection of Plant/Krauss bootlegs could make me a Plant/Krauss
> Battle of Evermore compilation, I'd be greatly indebted to you... and
> no, I'm NOT kidding).  He says he doesn't want to do Led Zeppelin
> anymore and yet he does Led Zeppelin and continues to do Led Zeppelin.
> And no matter how you look at it, Plant USED the O2 Reunion to help
> his Plant/Krauss stint get off the ground.  If you want proof, the
> fact is the spotlight during the P/K stint has been on Plant and
> whether or not he'll tour with Led Zeppelin, and his "official
> statement" only came out AFTER the hype finally started dying down,
> which says to me he did it simply to keep Raising Sand on the charts.
> Don't believe me, just look at it's time on the charts... came in hard
> during the O2 reunion, started to die, got really low, then just after
> his "official announcement," spiked again.  Coincidence?  I think not!
>  And, quite frankly, as much as I like Plant/Krauss (more for Alison
> Krauss, who I've become a HUGE fan of) and as much as I want to see
> what those two can WRITE together, the whole collaboration will be no
> more then a footnote in music history.  Sure, it has a lot of fans,
> but it also has a lot of people, many who are fans of both Plant and
> Krauss (and also T-Bone Bernette and the other musicians) who think
> this album failed miserably.  Then you have people who say they like
> but can't find a real reason why, and soon it'll be in their CD-cases,
> but won't make it to their iPod playlists.  These are the apologists.
> I cannot respect a man who says one thing and does the exact opposite.
>  Yes, I admit, the only way Plant will make me happy is to agree to a
> Led Zeppelin reunion and maybe one more Led Zeppelin album with new
> music.  Of COURSE I don't want him to do it if his heart isn't in it,
> because I also want it to be GOOD.  But that is how he will make me
> happy.  Obviously I don't expect him to do it for me, and I don't
> expect him to change his mind for my feelings, because, who am I to
> him?  He's the famous one with lots of money, and I'm just some fan on
> a list enjoying music from a past I wasn't even a part of (so one
> could say I'M stuck in the past, and a past I wasn't even alive for).
> However, neither he nor anyone else should expect me to start
> respecting him and liking him just because I like Led Zeppelin, Jimmy
> Page, and John Paul Jones.  I realize that my little feelings aren't
> going to make him change his mind, but since he won't, neither will I.
> And you, Eddie, as well as all other Plant-fans, simply need to accept
> that.  Both you and I and Steve and Nech and all others on FBO like
> Led Zeppelin, right?  We can all agree that Led Zeppelin is one of, if
> not THE greatest band in the history of music (not just rock, not just
> blues... but MUSIC), right?  So how about we agree to disagree on
> Plant and unite over our mutual admiration for Led Zeppelin?  Led
> Zeppelin is what brought us all together in the first place.  Not
> Plant, not Page, not Jones, and not Bonham (neither John nor Jason),
> but Led Zeppelin.  We can all agree on Led Zeppelin and, quite
> frankly, that should be enough.  Let Plant go.  Respect him or hate
> him as we will, but I don't think our feelings on the individual
> members should tear us apart.
> I have no respect for Post-Zep Plant.  You, Eddie, do.  Good.  Great.
> I agree to disagree.  Do you?