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Re: Earl's Court Magick at Anniversary Daze

Uh..okay, I normally don't get into debates like these, but this argument of yours
seems pretty absurd. What I'm going to say's probably going to sound cliched, and it's
probably already been repeated a thousand times, but I'm still going to say it.

Saoirse wrote:

> 93
> > Let's see, so it's the artistic work of Led
> > Zeppelin, and you feel that it *has to* be released
> > to the world? Kind of a weak argument for
> > releasing it to the masses, dontcha think?
> Your missing my point.
> What I was saying was that it seems like this guy
> stole what is rightfully the property of Led Zeppelin,
> their music, for the sole purpose of buffing up his
> own ego...showing an hour here and an hour there.

> I am personally of the conviction that if you make any
> money off the artsitic achievements of others you are
> a leach...plain and simple....those that cannot "do"
> make money off of those who can.
> And it is even worse when...even if they don't make
> any money off if it...for some weird reason, get off
> on the idea that they have control over who can and
> cannot view it.
> This guy who has Earls court obviously likes the power
> of being able to show this video to people...waving it
> in front of our noses.
> Now, the idea of bootlegging is another thing all
> together I guess.
> But the fact remains that if anyone has the right to
> hoard it is Jimmy Page and Jimmy Page alone...its his
> music he can do what he wants with it...but this is
> not "Mr. Earl's Court"'s music.

Yes, Jimmy's music is his music, and he has the right to decide who he wants to release
his music to. Now you're accusing the guy who displayed the Earls Court video clips of
being an arsehole just because he's witholding something that was given to him by
possibly Jimmy himself??

> > He's not throwing anyhting at our feet.  It's Jimmy
> > that keeps
> > throwing out little teases, like the Kashmir vid on
> > Latter Days.
> Yea, he did it at the Daze in London..oh here is an
> hour....and I may have more....guess you'll just have
> to come back and see ....
> Like I said...If anyone has a right to hoard it is
> Jimmy...
> why???
> Because it is HIS music....not yours, or mine, he
> wrote it he performed it...how would you like it if
> you spent hours at work, writing a program...or if I
> spent a long time working on a painting...and then
> someone just came and stole it...marketed it under
> their name ,used your name to sell it,... and gave you
> no money for your work....

That's precisely why hoarders who were given these videos and whatnot don't distribute
these items to the public...........

> thats what some bootleggers do.
> Others do it to spread the music...which I do not have
> that much of a problem with, as long as people are not
> making money off the artist.....I have no problem with
> it when the artist is cool with it.

Spreading the music is a good thing. The point is, IS the artist cool with it?

> > Hehehehe, Marines.  Yeah, like a Marine would be
> > able to pull that one off.......
> I was just joking :P
> Yea, not even a marine can get past the watchful eye
> of the London Zep fanbase....
> > Hate to tell you this, but a hoarder and a
> > bootlegger are two completely dfferent things.  If
> > the guy who posessed the EC tapes
> > were a bootlegger, we would have seen the entire
> > tape(s) *long*
> > ago.
> I am sure there are some bootleggers who are horders.
> It depends...I guess you all just had a stroke of bad
> luck with this one, that the EC tapes fell into the
> hands of a jerk :0)
> I really don't care if I ever see the tapes...I just
> thought that it was that height of hypocracy for the
> London crew to "respect the rights" of a horder, but
> not the rights of J. Page.

There are bootleggers who are hoarders, but hoarders aren't necessarily bootleggers, if
you catch my drift. These hoarders do not necessarily have to bootleg the video in
order to get a copy of it!

> > Whoa, whoa, whoa!  You say that Jimmy's rights be
> > respected about his control over his material, yet
> > you sit here and *demand* that the EC tape hoarder
> > realease what he's got? I don't follow your
> > logic here.
> my logic is that Jimmy wrote it, Jimmy played it,
> robert sang it...its is THEIR'S not the horders'.
> Jimmy has a right to the control of his stuff....the
> tape horder dosen't...he is just on some power trip.

So you're saying that when Jimmy Page decides to give a copy of his precious videos to
someone, he automatically loses his right to keep the tapes private, since that
associate doesn't have the right to keep those tapes private?!!!!?!

> He should either be a man and give it to the public or
> give it to Jimmy and let Jimmy decide what to do with
> it.

Uh huh.........so he has to give the tapes BACK to Jimmy because of his inability to
keep the tapes away from the public?

> > As a matter of fact, it's Jimmy and co. that are
> > keeping us from seeing the damn tapes anyway. They
> > know full well who posseses them, and have basically
> > made it clear that bad things could  happen were the
> > tapes to leak out.
> So, why can this guy still play it in a club in
> London.

Because there's a difference between a one-off display and permanently distributing the

> If Jimmy and Co. are the people controling the
> release...or non release of the tape through this
> hoarder...then I'm sorry for causing a fuss...because
> like I said, Jimmy has right to do so...but from where
> I sit...across the pond and out of the "zepplin
> knitting circle gossip" loop...it looks like this guy
> is just on a power trip with controling someone else
> work.

I rest my case.

> > Again, hoarder does not equal bootlegger.
> > Bootleggers are out to
> > make a profit, a hoarder is simply keeping it to
> > himself.  I almost
> > wish the guy *were* a bootlegger:-)
> Yea,and bootleggers who are out to make a profit are
> leaches too.....when I was into Phish, people just
> traded freely...and Phish is still all about people
> trading and spreading the music. Spending over $100 on
> a Phish CD is unheard of.

Phish does not equal Led Zeppelin. Besides, here we're talking about authentic
professional videotaping, and you're comparing it to an amateur recording? I just don't
get it.

> > Does this seem strange to anyone but me?  Sam says
> > we have to
> > respect Jimmy's right to control his own music, yet
> > damns the
> > hoarder for not releasing the tapes.
> I'm not really that upset over him not releasing the
> tape...frankly I could care less...I think it is
> hypocritical of the London crew to say that they need
> to respect the Hoarder's rights over Jimmy's ...thats
> all.

No, what it means is that they have to respect the hoarder's decision to keep the tapes
private in order to respect Jimmy's rights as the artiste in question.

> I was all about taping the damn thing at the London
> gig just to give the horder a taste of his own
> medicine...not because I want to see an hour of Earls
> Court...because ...I really don't care that much about
> seeing it.
> But I do think that Jimmy has every right to control
> his music....the hoarder dosen't...and bootleggers
> don't either. Unless Jimmy gives them the right to do
> so...like Phish, the Dead, Dave Matthews..etc...do.

And herein the irony.

> Samantha
> Are your toes sore yet :)

no. are yours?

- -Terra

- --
Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
In the forests of the night;
What immortal hand or eye,
Could frame thy fearful symmetry.

- -The Tyger (William Blake 1757-1827)