jimmy speaks! july 1977....

[richard maenpaa <ritchiepage@xxxxxxxxx>]

howdy kids,
     boy this one is way long....
          enjoy!
               "if i had a scanner, i'd scan 'er
in the morning............"

guitar player magazine july 1977
     conducting an interview with jimmy page,
lead guitarist and producer/arranger for
england's premier hard rock band led zeppelin,
amounts very nearly to constructing a
mini-history of british rock and roll. perhaps
one of zeppelin's more outstanding
characteristics is it's endurance, having
remained intact(no personnel changes since it's
inception) through an extremely tumultuous decade
involving not only rock but popular music in
general. since 1969 the group's four members -
page, bass player john paul jones, vocalist
robert plant, and drummer john bonham - have
produced eight albums (two are doubles) of
original often revolutionary compositions with a
heavy metal sound. for as long as the band has
benn an entity, their records, coupled with
several well-planned and highly publicized
european and american tours, have exerted a
profound influence on rock groups and guitar
players on both sides of the atlantic. page's
carefully calculated guitar frenzy, engineered
through the use of distortion, surrounds plants
expressive vocals to create a tension and
excitement rarely matched by zeppelin's numerous
emulators.
     but the prodigious contributions of james
patrick page, born in 1945 in middlesex, england,
date back to well before the formation of his
present band. his work as a session guitarist
earned him so lengthy a credit list (some sources
cite jimmy as being on 50-90% of the records
released in england from 1963 to 1965) that he
himself is no longer sure of each and every cut
on which he played. even without the exact number
of his vinyl encounters known, the range of his
interaction as musician and sometime-producer
with the landmark groups and individuals of soft
and hard rock is impressive and diverse: the who,
them, various members of the rolling stones,
donovan, and jackie deshannon to name a few. in
the mid-sixties page joined one of the best known
british rock bands, the yardbirds, leading to a
legendary collaboration with guitarist jeff beck.
when the yardbirds disbanded in 1968,page was
ready to start his own group. according to jimmy,
at the initial meeting of led zeppelin the sound
of success was already bellowing through the amps
and the musicians four-week introductory period
resulted in led zeppelin, their first of many
gold record-winning lp's.

     g.p.:let's begin at the beginning.when you
first started playing, what was going on
musically?

     j.p.:i got really stimulated by hearing
early rock and roll - knowing that something was
going on that was being suppressed by the media.
which it really was at the time. you had to stick
by the radio and listen to overseas radio to even
hear good rock records - little richard and
things like that. the record that made me want to
play guitar was "baby let's play house" by elvis
presley. i just sort of heard two guitars and
bass and thought "yeah, i want to be a part of
this." there was just so much energy and vitality
coming out of it.

     g.p.:when did you get your first guitar?

     j.p.:when i was about 14. it was all a
matter of trying to pick up tips and stuff. there
weren't many method books, really, apart from
jazz, which had no bearing on rock and roll
whatsoever at the time. but that first guitar was
a grazzioso, which was like a copy of a
stratocaster. then i git a real startocaster,
then one of those gibson "black beauties" which
stayed with me for a long time until some
thieving magpie took it to his nest. that's the
guitar i did all the 60's sessions on.

     g.p.:were your parents musical?

     j.p.:no not at all. but they didn't mind me
getting into it; i think they were quite relieved
to see something being done instead of artwork,
which they thought was a loser's game.

     g.p.:what music did you play when you first
started?

     j.p.:i wasn't really playing anything
properly. i just knew a few bits of solos and
things, not much. i just kept getting records and
learning that way. it was the obvious influences
at the beginning: scotty moore, james burton,
cliff gallup - he was gene vincent's guitarist -
johnny meeks, later. those seemed to be the most
sustaining influences until i began to hear blues
guitarists elmoe james, b. b. king, and people
like that. basically, that was the start; a
mixture between rock and blues. then i stretched
out a lot more, and i started doing studio work.
i had to branch out,and i did. i might do three
sessions a day: a film session in the morning,and
then there'd be something like a rock band, and
the maybe a folk one in the evening. i didn't
know what was coming! but it was a really good
disciplinary area to work in, the studio. and it
also gave me a chance to develop on all of the
different styles.

     g.p.:do you remember the first band you were
in?

     j.p.:just friends and things. i played in a
lot of different small bands around, but nothing
you could ever get any records of.

     g.p.:what kind of music were you playing
with the early english rock band neil christian &
the crusaders?

     j.p.:this was before the stones happened. so
we were doing chuck berry, gene vincent, and bo
diddley things mainly. at the time,public taste
was more engineered towards top-ten records, so
it was a bit of a struggle. but there'd always be
a small section of the audience into what we were
doing.

     g.p.:wasn't there a break in your music
career at this point?

     j.p.:yes,i stopped playing and went to art
college for about two years, while concentrating
more on blues playing on my own. and then from
art college to the marquee club in london. i used
to go up and jam on a thursday night with the
interlude band. one night somebody came up and
said,"would you like to play on a record?" and i
said,"yeah, why not?" it did quite well, and that
was it after that. i can't remember the title of
it now. from that point i started suddenly
getting all this studio work. there was a
crossroads: is it an art career or is it going to
be music? well, anyway, i had to stop going to
the art college because i was really getting into
music. big jim sullivan,who was really brilliant,
and i were the only guitarists doing those
sessions. then a point came where stax records
(memphis-based rhythm and blues label) started
influencing music to have more brass and
orchestral stuff.the guitar started taking a back
seat with just the occasional riff. i didn't
realize how rusty i was going to get until a rock
and roll session turned up from france, and i
could hardly play.i thought it was time to get
out and i, did.

     g.p.:you just stopped playing?

     j.p.:for a while i just worked on my stuff
alone,and then i went to a yardbirds concert at
oxford,and they were all walking around in their
penguin suits. (lead singer) keith relf got
really drunk and was saying "fuck you" right into
the mike and falling into the drums,i thought it
was a great anarchistic night, and i went back
into the dressing room and said, "what a
brilliant show!" there was this great argument
going on; (bass player) paul samwell-smith
saying, "well i'm leaving the group, and if i was
you, keith, i'd do the very same thing." so he
left the group,and keith didn't.but they were
stuck, you see,because they had commitments and
dates, so i said, "i'll play the bass if you
like." and then it worked out that we did the
dual lead guitar thing as soon as (rhythm
guitarist) chris dreja could get it together with
the bass, which happened, though not for long.
but then came the question of discipline. if
you're going to do dual lead guitar riffs and
patterns,then you've got to be playing the same
things. jeff beck had discipline occasionally,
but he was an inconsistent player in that when he
is on, he's probably the best there is, but at
that time, and for a period afterwards, he had no
respect whatsoever for audiences.

     g.p.:you were playing acoustic guitar during
your session period?

     j.p.:yes,i had to do it on studio work. and
you come to grips with it very quickly too, very
quickly, because it is what is expected. there
was a lot of busking (singing on street corners)
in the early days, but as i say, i had to come to
grips with it, and it was a good schooling.

     g.p.:you were using the les paul for those
sessions?

     j.p.:the gibson "black beauty" les paul
custom (ed. note: "black beauty," a term not
officially adopted by gibson, is often applied to
stock black les paul customs, both two- and
three-pickup models.) i was one of the first
people in england to have one, but i didn't know
that then. i just saw it on the wall, had a go
with it, and it was good. i traded a gretch chet
atkins i'd had before for the les paul.

     g.p.:what kind of amplifiers were you using
for session work?

     j.p.: a small supro,which i used until
someone,i don't know who, smashed it up for me.
i'm going to try to get another one. it's like a
harmony amp,i think, and all of the first album
(led zeppelin) was done on that.

     g.p.:what do you remember most about your
early days with the yardbirds?

     j.p.:one thing is it was chaotic in
recording. i mean we did one tune and didn't
really know what it was. we had ian stewart from
the stones on piano, and we'd just finished the
take, and without even hearing it,
(producer)mickie most said, "next." i said, "i've
never worked like this in my life." and he said,
"don't worry about it." it was all done very
quickly, as it sounds. it was things like that
that really led to the general state of mind and
depression of relf and (drummer)jim mccarty that
broke the group up. i tried to keep it together,
but there was no chance; they just wouldn't have
it. in fact, relf said the magic of the band
disappeared when clapton left.(ed. note: eric
clapton played with the yardbirds prior to beck's
joining.) i was really keen on doing anything,
though, probably because of having had all that
studio work and variety beforehand. so it didn't
matter what way they wanted to go. they were
definitely talented people, but they couldn't
really see the woods for the trees at the time.

     g.p.:you thought the best period of the
yardbirds was when beck was with them?

     j.p.:i did. giorgio gomelsky (the yardbird's
manager and producer) was good for him because he
got him thinking and attempting new things.
that's when they started all sorts of departures.
apparently (co-producer) simon napier-bell sang
the guitar riff of "over under sideways down" (on
l.p. of the same name) to jeffto demonstrate what
he wanted, but i don't know whether that's true
or not. i never spoke to him about it. i know the
idea of the record was to sort of emulate the
sound of the old "rock around the clock" type
record - that bass and backbeat thing, but it
wouldn't be evident at all.every now and again
he'd say, "let's make a record such and such,"
and no one would ever know what the example was
at the end of the song.

     g.p.:can you describe some of your musical
interaction with beck during the yardbirds
period?

     j.p.:sometimes it worked really great, and
sometimes it didn't. there were a lot of
harmonies that i don't think anyone else had
really done, not like we did. the stones were the
only ones who got into two guitars going at the
same time from old muddy waters records. but we
were more into solos rather than a rhythm
thing.the point is, you've got to have the parts
worked out, and i'd find that i was doing what i
was supposed to, while something totally
different would be coming from jeff. that was all
right for the areas of improvisation, but there
were other parts where it just did not work.
you've got to understand that beck and i came
from the same sort of roots. if you've got things
you enjoy, then you want to do them - to the
horrifying point where we'd done our first l.p.
with "you shook me," and then i heard he'd done
"you shook me" (truth). i was terrified because i
thought they'd be the same. but i hadn't even
known he'd done it, and he hadn't known we had.

     g.p.:did beck play bass on "over under
sideways down"?

     j.p.:no, in fact,for that l.p. they just got
him in to do the solos because they had a lot of
trouble with him. but then when i joined the
band, he supposedly wasn't going to walk off
anymore. well,  he did a couple of times. it's
strange: if he'd had a bad day, he'd take it out
on the audience. i don't know if he's the same
now; his playing sounds far more consistent on
records. you see, on the "beck's bolero" (truth)
thing i was working with that. the track was
done, and then the producer just diappeared. he
was never seen again; he simply didn't come back.
napier-bell, he just sort of left me and jeff to
it. jeff was playing, and i was in the box
(recording booth). and even though he says he
wrote it, i wrote it. i'm playing the electric
twelve string on it. beck's doing the slide bits,
and i'm basically playing around the chords. the
idea was built around (classical composer)
maurice ravel's "bolero." it's got a lot of drama
to it; it came off right. it was a goo lineup
too, with (the who's drummer) keith moon and
everything.

     g.p.:wasn't that band going to be led
zeppelin?

     j.p.:it was, yeah. not led zeppelin as a
name; the name came afterwards. but it was said
afterwards, that that's what it could have been
called.because moony wanted to get out of the who
and so did (who bass player) john entwistle, but
when it came down to getting hold of a singer, it
was either going to be steve winwood or steve
marriot.finally it came down to marriot. he was
contacted, and the reply came back from his
manager's office: "how would you like to have a
group with no fingers, boys?" or words to that
effect. so the group was dropped because of
marriot's other commitment, to the small faces.
but i think it would have been the first of all
those bands sort of like the cream and
everything. instead, it didn't happen - apart
from the "bolero." that's the closest it got.
john paul (jones) is on that too; so is nicky
hopkins (studio keyboard player with various
british rock groups).

     g.p.:you only recorded a few songs with beck
on record.

     j.p.:yeah, "happenings ten years time ago"
(the yardbirds' greatest hits) "stroll on" (blow
up) "the train kept-a-rollin'" (having a rave-up
with the yardbirds), "psycho daisies," "bolero,"
and a few other things. none of them were with
the yardbirds, but earlier on - just some studio
things, unreleased songs: "louie louie" and
things like that - really good though, really
great.

     g.p.were you using any boosters with the
yardbirds to get all those sounds?

     j.p.:a fuzztone which i'd virtually
regurgitated from what i heard on "200 pound bee"
by the ventures. they had a fuzztone. it was
nothing like the one this guy, roger mayer, made
for me; he worked for the admiralty (british
navy) in the electronics division. he did all the
fuzz pedals for jimi hendrix later - all those
octave doublers and things like that. he made
this one for me, but that was all during the
studio period, you see, i think jeff had one too
then, but i was the one who got the effect going
again. that accounted for quite a lot of the
boost and that sort of sustain in the music.

     g.p.:you were also doing all sorts of things
with feedback.

     j.p.:you know "i need you" (kinkdom) by the
kinks? i think i did that bit there in the
beginning. i don't know who really did feedback
first; it just sort of happened. i don't think
anybody conciosly nicked it from anybody else; it
was just going on. but pete townshend obviously
was the one, through the music of his group, who
made the use of feedback more his style, and so
it's related to him. whereas the other players
like jeff and myself were playing more single
notes and things than chords.

     g.p.:you used a danelectro with the
yardbirds?

     j.p.yes, but not with beck. i did use it in
the latter days. i used it onstage for "white
summer" (little games). i used a special tuning
for that; the low string down to b, then a, d, g,
a, d. it's like a modal tuning - a sitar tuning
in fact.

     g.p.:was "black mountain side" on led
zeppelin an extension of that?

     j.p.:i wasn't totally original on that. it
had been done in the folk clubs a lot. annie
briggs was the first one that i heard do that
riff. i was playing it as well, and then there
was (english folk guitarist) bert jansch's
version. he's the one who crystallized all the
acoustic playing as far as i'm concerned. those
first few albums of his were absolutely
brilliant. and the tuning on "black mountain
side" is the same as "white summer." it's taken a
bit of a battering, that danelectro guitar, i'm
afraid.

     g.p.:do those songs work well now on the
danelectro?

     j.p.:i played them on that guitar before, so
i'd thought i'd do it again. but i might change
it around to something else, since my whole amp
situation is different now from what it used to
be. now it's marshall; then it was vox tops and
different cabinets - kind of a hodge podge, but
it worked.

     g.p.:you used a vox 12-string with the
yardbirds?

     j.p.:that's right. i can't remember the
titles now - the mickiemost things, some of the
b-sides. i remember there was one with an
electric 12-string solo on the end of it which
was all right. i don't have copies of them now,
and i don't know what they're called.i've got
little games, but that's about it.

     g.p.:you were using vox amps with the
yardbirds?

     j.p.:ac-30's. they've held up consistently
well.even the new ones are pretty good. i got
four in and tried them out, and they were all
reasonably good. i was going to build up a big
bank of four of them, but bonzo's kit is so loud
that they just don't come over the top of it
properly.

     g.p.:were the ac-30's that you used with the
yardbirds modified in any way?

     j.p.:only by vox. you could get these ones
with special treble boosters on the back, which
is what i had.  no, i didn't do that much
customizing apart from making sure that all the
points, soldering contacts, and things were
solid. the telecasters changed rapidly; you could
tell because you could split the pickups - you
know that split sound you get - and again you
could get an out-of-phase sound. and then
suddenly they didn't do it anymore. so they
obviously changed the electronics. and there
didn't seem to be any way to get it back. i tried
to fiddle around with the wiring, but it didn't
work, so i just went back to the old one again.

     g.p.:what kind of guitar were you using on
the first led zeppelin album?

     j.p.:a telecaster. i used the les paul with
the yardbirds on about two numbers, and a fender
for the rest. you see the les paul custom had a
central setting, a kind of out-of-phase pickup
sound which jeff couldn't get on his les paul, so
i used mine for that.

     g.p.:was the telecaster the one beck gave to
you?

     j.p.:yes. there was work done on it but only
afterwards. i painted it; everyone painted their
guitars in those days. and i had a reflective
plastic sheeting underneath the pickguard that
gives rainbow colors.

     g.p.:it sounds exactly like a les paul.

     j.p.:yeah, well, that's the amp and
everything. you see, i could get a lot of tones
out of the guitar which you normally couldn't.
this confusion goes back to those early sessions
again with the les paul. those may not sound like
a les paul, but that's what i used. it's just
different amps, mike placings, and all different
things. also, if you just crank it up to
distortion point so you can sustain notes, it's
bound to sound like a les paul. i was using the
supro amp for the first album and still do. the
"stairway to heaven" (fourth untitled album) solo
was done when i pulled out the telecaster, which
i hadn't used for a long time, plugged it into
the supro, and away it went again. that's a
different sound entirely from any of the rest of
the first album. it was a good versatile setup.
i'm using a leslie on the solo on "good time bad
times"(fourth l.p.)(sic). it was wired up for an
organ thing then.

     g.p.:what kind of acoustic guitar are you
using on "black mountain side" and "babe i'm
gonna leave you"(both on led zeppelin)?

     j.p.:that was a gibson j-200 which wasn't
mine; i borrowed it. it was a beautiful guitar,
really great. i've never found a guitar of that
quality anywhere since. i could play so easily on
it, get a really thick sound. it had heavy guage
strings on it, but it didn't seem to feel like
it.

     g.p.:do you just use your fingers when
playing acoustic?

     j.p.:yes. i used fingerpicks once, but i
find them to spikey; they're too sharp. you can't
get the tone or response that you would get, say,
the way classical players approach gut-string
instruments. the way they pick, the whole thing
is the tonal response of the string. it seems
important.

     g.p.:can you describe your picking style?

     j.p.:i don't know, really. it's a cross
between fingerstyle and flat picking. there's a
guy in england called davey graham, and he never
used any fingerpicks or anything. he used a
thumbpick every now and again, but i prefer just
a flatpick and fingers because then it's easier
to get around from guitar to guitar. well, it is
for me, anyway. but apparently he's got calluses
on the left hand and allover the right as well.
he can get so much attack on his strings, and
he's really good.

     g.p.:the guitar on "communication breakdown"
on led zeppelin sounds as if it's coming out of a
shoebox.

     j.p.:yeah.i put it in a small room, a little
tiny vocal booth-type thing and miked it from a
distance. you see, there's a very old recording
maxim that goes, "distance makes depth." i've
used that a hell of a lot on recording techniques
with the band generally, not just me. you're
always used to those close-miking amps, just
putting the microphone in front. but i'd have a
mike right out the back as well. and then balance
the two and get rid of all the phasing problems.
really, you shouldn't have to use an e.q. in the
studio if the instruments sound right. it should
all be done with the microphones. but see,
everyone has gotten so carried away with e.q.
pots that they have forgotten the whole science
of microphone placement. there aren't too many
guys who know it. i'm sure les paul knows a lot:
obviously he must have been well into it, as were
all those who produced the early rock records
where there were only one or two mikes in the
studio.

     g.p.: the guitar solo on "i can't quit you
baby" from led zeppelin is interesting - many
pull-offs in a sort of sloppy but amazingly
inventive style.

     j.p.:there are mistakes in it, but it
doesn't make any difference. i'll always leave
the mistakes in. i can't help it. the timing bits
on the a and b flat parts are right, though it
might sound wrong. the timing just sounds off.
but there are some wrong notes. you've got to be
reasonably honest about it. it's like the
filmtrack album (the song remains the same);
there's no editing really on that. it wasn't the
best concert playing-wise at all, but it was the
only one with celluloid footage, so there it was.
it was all right; it was just one "as it is"
performance. it wasn't one of those real magic
nights, but then again, it wasn't a terrible
night. so, for all its mistakes and everything
else, it's a very honest filmtrack. rather than
just trailing around through a tour with a
recording moble truck waiting fo the magic night,
it was just, "there you are - take it or leave
it." i've got a lot of live recorded stuff going
back to '69.

     g.p.:is there an electric 12-string on
"thank you"?

     j.p.:yes; i think it's a fender or
richenbacher.

     g.p.:jumping ahead to led zeppelin ii, the
riff in the middle of "whole lotta love" was a
very composed and structured phrase.

     j.p.:i had it worked out already before
entering the studio. i had rehearsed it. and then
all that other stuff, sonic wave sound and all
that, i built it up in the studio, and put
effects on it and things, treatments.

     g.p.:how is that descending riff done?

     j.p.:with a medal slide and backwards echo.
i think i came up with that first before anybody.
i know it's been used a lot now, but not at the
time. i thought of it on this mickie most thing.
in fact, some of the thing that might sound a bit
odd have, in fact, backwards echo involved in
them as well.

     g.p.:what kind of effect are you using on
the beginning of "ramble on"(led zeppelin ii)?

     j.p.:if i can remember correctly, it's like
harmony feedback and then it changes. to be more
specific, most of the tracks  just start off
bass, drums, and guitar, and once you've done the
drums and bass, you just build everything up
afterwards. it's like a starting point, and you
start constructing from square one.

     g.p.:is the rest of the band in the studio
when you put down the solos?

     j.p.:no, never. i don't like anybody else in
the studio when i'm putting on the guitar parts.
i usually just limber up for a while and then
maybe do three solos and take the best of the
three.

     g.p.:what is the effect on "out on the
tiles" from led zeppelin iii?

     j.p.:now that is exactly what i was talking
about: close-miking and distance-miking. that's
ambient sound. getting the distance of the time
lag from one end of the room to the other and
putting that in as well. the whole idea, the way
i see recording, is to try and capture the sound
of the room live and the emotion of the whole
moment and try to convey that across. that's the
very essence of it. and so, consequently, you've
got to capture as much of the room sound as
possible.

     g.p.:on "tangerine" it sounds as if you're
playing a pedal steel.

     j.p.i am. and on the first l.p. there's a
pedal steel. i had never played steel before, but
i just picked it up. there's a lot of things i do
first time around that i haven't done before. in
fact, i hadn't touched a pedal steel from the
first album to the third. it's a bit of a pinch
really from the things that chuck berry did. but
nevertheless it fits. i use pedal steel on "your
time is gonna come" (led zeppelin). it sounds
like a slide or something. it's more out of tune
on the first album because i hadn't got a kit to
put it together.

     g.p.:you've also played other stringed
instruments on records.

     j.p.:"gallows pole" (on led zeppelin iii)
was the first time for banjo and on "the battle
of evermore" (fourth album) a mandolin was lying
around. it wasn't mine; it was jonesy's. i just
picked it up, got the chords, and it sort of
started happening. i did it more or less straight
off. but you see that's fingerpicking again,
going on back to the studio days and developing a
certain amount of technique. at least enough to
be adapted and used. my fingerpicking is sort of
a cross between pete seeger, earl scruggs, and
total incompetence.

     g.p.:was the fourth album the first time you
used a double-neck?

     j.p.:i didn't use a double neck on that, but
i had to get one afterwards to play "stairway to
heaven." i did all those guitars on it; i just
built them up. that was my beginning of building
up harmonized guitars properly. "ten years gone"
(physical graffitti) was an extension of that,
and then "achilles last stand" (presence) is like
the essential flow of it really, because there
was time to think things out; i just had to more
or less lay it down on the first track and
harmonize on the second track. it was really fast
working on presence. and i did all the guitar
overdubs on the l.p. in one night. there were
only two sequences.the rest of the band, not
robert, but the rest of them i don't think really
could see it to begin with. they didn't know what
the hell i was going to do with it. but i wanted
to give each section it's own identity,and i
think it came off really good.i didn't think i'd
be able to do it in one night. i thought i'd have
to do it in the course of three different nights
to get the individual sections. but i was so into
it that my mind was working properly for a
change. it sort of crystallized and everything
was just pouring out. i was very happy with the
guitar on that whole album as far as the maturity
of the playing goes.
 
     g.p.:did playing the double-neck require a
new approach?

     j.p.:yes. the main thing is, there's an
effect you can get where you leave the 12-string
neck open as afr as the sound goes and play on
the 6-string neck, and you get the 12-strings
vibrating in sympathy.it's like an indian
sitar,and i've worked on that a little bit.i use
it on "stairway" like that;not on the album, but
on the soundtrack and film. it's surprising. it
doesn't vibrate as heavily as a sitar would, but
nonetheless it does add to the overall tonal
quality.

     g.p.:do you think your playing on the fourth
album is the best you've ever done?

     j.p.:without a doubt. as far as consistency
goes and as far as the quality of playing on a
whole album, i would say yes. but i don't know
what the best solo i've ever done is - i have no
idea. my vocation is more in composition really
than in anything else. building up harmonies.
using the guitar, orchestrating the guitar like
an army - a guitar army. i think that's where
it's at, really, for me. i'm talking about actual
orchestration in the same way you'd orchestrate a
classical piece of music. instead of using brass
and violins, you treat the guitars with
synthesizers or other devices and give them
different treatments, so that they have enough
frequency range and scope and everything to keep
the listener as totally commited to it as the
player is. it's a difficult project, but it's one
that i've got to do.

     g.p.:have you done anything towards this end
already?

     j.p.:only on these three tunes: "stairway to
heaven", "ten years gone," and "achilles last
stand," the way the guitar is building. i can see
certain milestones along the way, like "four
sticks" (fourth l.p.), in the middle section of
that. the sound of those guitars - that's where
i'm going. i've got long pieces written. i've got
one really long one written that's harder to play
than anything. it's sort of classical, but then
it goes through changes from that mood to really
laid-back rock, and then to really intensified
stuff. with a few laser notes thrown in,we might
be all right.

     g.p.:what is the amplifier setup you're
using  now?

     j.p.:onstage? marshall 100s which are
customized in new york so they've got 200 watts.
i've got four unstacked cabinets, and i've got a
wah-wah pedal and an mxr unit. everything else is
total flash (laughs). i've got a harmonizer, a
theramin, violin bow, and an echoplex echo unit.

     g.p.:are there certain settings you use on
the amp?

     j.p.:depending on the acoustics of the
place, the volume is up to about three. the rest
is pretty standard.

     g.p.:when was the first time you used the
bow?

     j.p.:the first time i recorded with it was
with the yardbirds. but the idea was put to me by
a classical string player when i was doing studio
work. one of us tried to bow the guitar; then we
tried it between us, and it worked. at that point
i was just blowing it, but the other effects i've
obviously come up with on my own - using wah-wah
and echo. you have to put rosin on the bow, and
the rosin sticks to the string and makes it
vibrate.

     g.p.:what kinds of picks and strings do you
use?

     j.p.:herco heavy-gauge nylon picks and ernie
ball super slinky strings.

     g.p.:what guitars are you using?

     j.p.:god, this is really hard. there are so
many. my les paul, the usual one, and i've got a
spare one of those if anything goes wrong. i've
got a double-neck; and one of these fender string
benders that was made for me by gene parsons
(former drummer with the byrds and the flying
burrito brothers). i've cut back from what i was
going to use on tour. i have with me a martin
guitar and a gibson a-4 mandolin. the martin is
one of the cheap ones; it's not the one with the
herringbone back or anything like that. it's
probably a d-18. it's got those nice grover
tuners on it. i've got a gibson everly brothers
which was given to me by ronnie wood. that's like
the current favorite, but i don't take it out on
the road because it's a really personal guitar. i
keep it with me in the room. it's a beauty; it's
fantastic. there's only a few of those around.
ron's got one, and keith richards' got one, and
i've got one as well. so it's really nice. i
haven't had a chance to use it on record yet, but
i will because it's got such a nice sound.

     g.p.:do you have other guitars?

     j.p.:let's see, what else have we got? i
know when i come onstage it looks like a guitar
shop, the way they're all standing up there. but
i sold off all of my guitars before i left for
america. there was a lot of old stuff hanging
around which i don't need. it's no point having
things if you don't need them. when all the
equipment came over here, we had done our
rehearsals, and we were really on top, really in
tip-top form. then robert caught laryngitis, and
we had to postpone a lot of dates and reshuffle
them, and i didn't touch a guitar for five weeks.
i got a bit panicky about that - after two years
off the road, that's a lot to think about. and
i'm still only warming up; i still can't
coordinate a lot of the things i need to be
doing. getting by, but it's not right; i don't
feel 100% right yet.

     g.p.:what year is the les paul you're using
now?

     j.p.:'59. it's been rescraped (repainted),
but that's all gone now because it chipped off.
joe walsh got it for me.

     g.p.:do you think that when you went from
the telecaster to the les paul that you're
playing changed?

     j.p.:yes,i think so. it's more of a fight
with a telecaster, but there are rewards. the
gibson's got a stereotyped sound maybe; i don't
know. but it's got a beautiful sustain to it. i
like sustain because it relates to bowed
instruments and everything, this whole area that
everyone's been pushing and experimenting in.
when you think about it, it's mainly sustain.

     g.p.:do you use special tunings on the
electric guitar?

     j.p.:all the time. they're my own that i've
worked out, so i'd rather keep those to myself,
really. but they're never open tunings. i have
used those, but most of the things i've written
have not been open tunings, so you can get more
chords into them.

     g.p.:did you ever meet any of those folk
players you admire - bert jansch, john renbourn,
or any others?

     j.p.:no, and the most terrifying thing of
all happened about a few months ago. jansch's
playing appeared as if it was going down or
something,and it turns out he's got arthritis. i
really think he's one of the best. he was,
without any doubt, the one who crystallized so
many things. as much as hendrix has done on
electric, i think he's done on acoustic. he was
really way, way ahead. and for something like
that to happen is such a tragedy, with a mind as
brilliant as that. there you go. another player
whose physical handicap didn't stop him is django
reinhardt. for this last l.p. they pulled him out
of retirement to do it; it's on barclay records
in france. he'd been retired for years, and it's
fantastic. you know the story about him in the
caravan and losing fingers and such. but the
record is just fantastic. he must have been
playing all the time to be that good - it's
horrifyingly good. horrifying. but it's always
good to hear perennial players like django, les
paul, and people like that.

     g.p.:you listen to les paul?

     j.p.:oh yeah, you can tell jeff (beck) did
too, can't you? have you ever heard "it's been a
long, long time" (mid-forties single by the les
paul trio with bing crosby on decca)? you ought
to hear that. he does everything in one go. and
it's just basically one guitar, even though
they've tracked on rhythms and stuff. but my
goodness, his introductory chords and everything
are fantastic. he sets the whole tone, and then
goes into the solo which is fantastic. now that's
where i heard feedback first - from les paul.
also vibratos and things, even before b.b. king,
you know. i've traced a hell of a lot of rock and
roll, little riffs, and things, back to les paul,
chuck berry, cliff gallup and all those - it's
all there. but then les paul was influenced by
reinhardt, wasn't he? very much so. i can't get
my hands on the early records of les paul - the
les paul trio and all that stuff. but i've got
the capitol l.p.'s and things.i mean he's the
father of it all: multi-tracking and everything
else. if it hadn't been for him,there wouldn't
have been anything really.

     g.p.:you said that eric clapton was the one
who synthesized the les paul sound.

     j.p.:yeah, without a doubt. when he was with
the bluesbreakers, it was just a magic
combination. he got one of the marshall amps, and
away he went. it just happened. i thought he
played brilliantly then, really brilliantly. that
was very stirring stuff.

     g.p.:do you think you were responsible for
any specific guitar sounds?

     j.p.:the guitar parts in "trampled
underfoot" (physical graffiti). (british rock
journalist) nick kent came out with this idea
about how he thought that was a really
revolutionary sound. and i hadn't realized that
anyone would think it was, but i can explain
exactly how it's done. again it's sort of
backwards echo and wah-wah. i don't know how
responsible i was for new sounds because there
were so many good things happening around that
point, around the release of the first zeppelin
album, like hendrix and clapton.

     g.p.:what's the most difficult aspect of
recording a distinctive guitar sound?

     j.p.:the trouble is keeping a seperation
between sounds, so you don't have the same guitar
effect all the time. and that's where that
orchestration thing comes in: it's so easy. i've
already planned it. it's already there; all the
groundwork has been done now. and the dream has
been accomplished by the computerized mixing
console. the sort of struggle to achieve so many
things is over. as i said, i've got two things
written, but i'll be working on more. you can
hear what i mean on lucifer rising (soundtrack
for the unreleased kenneth anger film). you see,
i didn't play any guitar on that, apart from one
point. that was all other instruments, all
synthesizers.every instrument was given a process
so it didn't sound like what it really was - the
voices, drones, mantras, and even tabla drums.
when you've got a collage of, say, four of these
sounds together, people will be drawn right in
because there will be sounds they hadn't heard
before. that's basically what i'm into: collages
and tissues of sound with emotional intensity and
melody and all that. but you know there are so
many good people around like john mclaughlin.
it's a totally different thing than what i'm
doing.

     g.p.:do you think he has a sustaining
quality as a guitarist?

     j.p.:he's always had that technique right
from when i first knew him when he was working in
a guitar shop. i would say he was the best jazz
guitarist in england then, in the traditional
mode of johnny smith and tal farlow; a
combination of those two is exactly what he
sounded like. he was easily the best guitarist in
england, and he was working in a guitar shop. and
that's what i say -you hear so many good people
around under those conditions. i'll tell you one
thing, i don't know one musician who's stuck to
his guns, who was good in the early days, and
hasn't come through now with recognition from
everybody. albert lee and all these people that
seem to be like white elephants got recognition.
i think he's really good, bloody brilliant. he's
got one of those string benders, too, but i
haven't heard him in ages. but i know that every
time i've heard him, he's bloody better and
better.

     g.p.:do you feel that your playing grows all
the time?     

     j.p.:i've got two different approaches, like
a schizophrenic guitarist, really. i mean onstage
is totally different than the way that i approach
it in the studio. presence and my control over
all the contributing factors to that l.p., the
fact that it was done in three weeks, and all the
rest of it, was so good for me. it was just good
for everything really,even though it was a very
anxious point. and the anxiety shows group-wise -
you know, "is robert going to walk again from his
auto accident in greece?" and all this sort of
thing. but i guess the solo in "achilles' last
stand" on presence is in the same tradition as
the solo from "stairway to heaven" on the fourth
l.p. it is on that level to me.

          -steve rosen-

    "i've got blisters on mah fingers!"
          ritchie :-)