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Re: Re: Robert's personal class, style, and grace?

This is such an interesting discussion.  Speaking of Plant maybe not being such an "ever onward innovator..."

I have taken a personal vow against rampant bashing without leavening it with a touch of reality, so I will start with this - Plant's a talented man and a gifted singer, also prolific and productive without a doubt.  He's learned a lot of musical lessons very well and applied them in excellent fashion.  Zeppelin would not be Zeppelin without him. 

But (you knew it was coming) it seems to me someone has always been there before him... we could start with Roger Daltrey, and a raft of blues singers, if you'd like. 

As you say Steve, for a long time it was Page.  Who travelled?  Who looked for unusual scales?  Who is as big an aficionado of rock and blues, with musical, artistic and production knowledge to spare?   Who was the insider in the music business? 

Later, samples of which music and which guest on guitar resulted in one of Plant's most succesful solo records... why, huh, Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Page. More sales, still?  The Honeydrippers - once again, covers, once again, Page.  What's that nomination for Record of the Year the other day?  That song written with Page that is clearly about the aftermath of Zeppelin, repurposed as some kind of love song.  You named the people since - and what do you know, in the 90's, look, it's Jimmy Page! 

2000's:  "Dreamland" is mainly covers.  Good covers, he stretched as a singer.  "Mighty Rearranger" is an excellent retreading of lessons learned from Zeppelin: loud, soft, light, shadow, rythmic, blues & rock & acoustic & middle eastern.  Nice, but not innovative.

Plant has taste in his choice of musical partnerships and inspirations, for sure (well, I'll forgive him Phil Collins...)   Now, it's Krauss and T-Bone, who have class to spare. But didn't Mark Knopfler and Emmylou Harris get there before them?
  
Some not so classy things?  His attitude towards many other musicians frankly makes me cringe.  Rod Stewart is singing cabaret, but Plant's cool 'cuz he's singing Americana?  Bands regrouping are only about nostalgia, while he's on an artistic voyage to vintage gold?

Which leads to the biggie - somehow he's the only one who can revisit Zeppelin in performance; if Jimmy dares it means he's stuck in the past.  This, coming from a man who I think from maybe too much listening ;-) only now and again reached the musical heights Bonham, Jones and Page regularly did back in the day.  

Page wasn't just ambitious in the 60s and 70s - he got where he was going, and then some.  Plant remains on a journey, which is fine; he has not rested on his laurels.  But he's gone down paths trod by others.  So for me he's not near the pantheon Page is in.  Which is nothing bad, few people are, and you certainly can't say Plant squandered his gifts.

For my money, "Raising Sand" is pretty, professional, and really boring unless you're in the mood, and the mood is middle aged and mellow to the point of funereal.  It certainly isn't innovative, although it is paying respect and doing it with class.  In my less charitable moments, unfortunately I can also believe he hooked his wagon to Grammy's Sweetheart, took care with the timing, and is about to reap the rewards.  Bet a dozen donuts he shows up at THIS awards show... 

As has been said, once you are no longer under the spell, things don't look so spontaneously, innocently "ever onward" anymore.  It's really interesting how just about everything ends up benefitting him.   

Still, I hope this record sweeps.  I hope Plant gets a mantle full of Grammies to prove to himself that yes, he's broken free of Zeppelin's shadow.  Unfortunately, this is also the year he lost me at "zzzzzzzz," and no number of Grammies will wash the taste out of my mouth, in comparison with what might have been.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To dare, to will, to remain silent is magic...


On Dec 10, 2008, stevethomson_mtl@xxxxxxxx wrote:

Grant,

Don't forget the Page-Plant years. WIC gets a lot of criticism, but I think there was some good music on it, just non-steller performances. I also think Wonderful One and Truth Explodes from Unledded had their moments (esoecially once Kevin Shirley got his hands on the latter. In 5.1 and cranked, it's one of the most-LZ tracks any of them have done. Plus there's the whole Jimmy as keeper of the LZ flame. A great deal of his time post Black Crowes was dedicated to the DVD/HTWWW releases.

Your question about Plant as a politician is one I've thought about. I think he'd be quite effective in communicating to people but perhaps less so in getting things done. For those who recall the Lord of the Rings (books not the movie), there's the wizard Saruman's ability to charm the people with his voice. As Plant put it himself in his recent description of Elvis in Rolling Stone, there's aspect of "otherworldly". There's some aspect of that. Take the Storytellers episode he did with SS a few years back. He drew the audience in and came across as this walking musical encylopedia. Yet, a short while later, he did a similar appearance with SS
on Ausitn City Limits and he didn't really speak to the crowd. He seemed distant and almost depressed. The contrast was striking.

While you're right that Plant has been a bit more all over the place musically, it can be viewed in ways other than Mr. Ever Onward Innovator. I've tended to see it as sort of a lost and drifting kind of thing. As his own manager said when he teamed with Page in the 90's, Plant has spent all his post-Zeppelin years trying to find another Jimmy Page and not finding one. He keeps going through musical foils - Blunt, Collins, Johntone, Dunnery/MacMichael, Page again, Gammond, Adams, Krauss/Burnette - and never really finding the kind of stable launch pad he needs for his music. Page on the other hand seems to be trying to carry on from the same framwework he had in Led Zeppelin, as you put it, a classic blues rock style, but he hasn't really worked with musicians who inspired him the way Led Zeppelin did. I'm hoping Jason and John will because what I saw in the footage and heard in the music from one years ago today was a side Jimmy Page I hadn't really
heard since Led Zeppelin. This is why I'm so damn pissed at Plant for walking away from it. The momentum was there, plain to see, and it was obvious even Plant felt it. They really could have restarted Led Zeppelin and carried on as good as it was before, just older, and more mature. It didn't have to be the endless greatest hits tour machine Plant feared. It could have been the musical foundation he's been searching for since 1980, but he's chosen instead something I see as little more than a novelty act with a limited shelf life. Meanwhile, all that magic and momentum is left there on the shelf. Even if they find another singer and try something else, it won't be what it could be.


--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Grant Burgess <grantburgess2001@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: Grant Burgess <grantburgess2001@xxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Robert's personal class, style, and grace?
> To: "FBO Mailing List" <zeppelin@xxxxxxxx>
> Received: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 2:20 PM
> Steve Writes:
>
> "What bugs me most is related to what I wrote a few
> minutes ago in the other thread, the part about Jimmy often
> being portrayed as unaccomplished and inactive since
> Bonzo's death as opposed to Plant the supposed ever
> onward innovator. At least a good portion of this is because
> Plant is a masterful communicator and a charmer. You find
> yourself listening to his interviews or reading them and
> believing what he's saying is the only logical and
> reasonable truth, that he does indeed possess a lot of
> personal class, style and grace. If you stop and think about
> it afterwards, then there are several paths you can go by
> (not two ;) : either you continue to fall under the spell
> and thus the class, style and grace remain unassailed; you
> think he's being clever and having fun with the
> interviewer and/or the fans; you realize he's a
> conflicted, troubled individual who can't quite make up
> his mind; or else he's a charlatan, a real con man. The
> reality is probably a mix
> ofall these and then some."
>
> Aside from doing Led Zeppelin related material and the 5
> years of working with Robert, what music has Jimmy put out
> in the past 20 years since his Outrider album? The only
> thing that I can think of is the Coverdale Page album.
>
> I think part of the problem of why Robert and Jimmy
> don't try to write together is they have different views
> on risk taking. Robert will go all over the place in styles
> of music and Jimmy wants to play it safe in the classic
> blues rock.
>
> The one thing that is glaringly absent in all these
> "rumours" is the idea that Jimmy, Jason and Jonesy
> played some of the demos from their rehearsal for Robert. If
> they really wanted to attract him, they would have said at
> least give it a listen and see if this is right for you.
>
> Steve, the way you describe Robert in interviews, do you
> think he'd be a good politician?
>
> Take Care
> Grant