Re: The Four Symbols is Copyrighted Part 3

[weiser <weiser@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

At 12:59 PM 4/18/03 -0400, TangerineMan wrote:

>Anyway, the question of far greater import and consequence in all this is,
>what about my (and everybody else's) jean jacket with the embroidered four
>symbols, circa 1981 and still hanging in my closet after all these years? Is
>it safe to wear it without fear of juridical(judicial) consequences in a 
>public area
>that agents, representatives or assigns of AOL/Time/Warner/Atlantic Records
>and their families, friends, informants, or pets are known to frequent?

When I buy a piece of printed or logo embroidered sportswear, whether it's Led 
Zeppelin's 
Four Symbols or otherwise I have to rely on whoever's selling it, that the 
seller has paid the 
licensing fee and has the legal right to sell me a licensed work of art 
wearable or otherwise. 
I'm going to assume they have unless I find out up front they haven't.
If they haven't then I'm going to walk away from the deal, even if it's a Led 
Zeppelin goodie.

Whether we think about it much or not, there are actually printed sportwear 
licensing agent 
representatives who double check on what's out on the market every season in 
the stores all 
over to make sure it's licensed and not counterfeit. When they find counterfeit 
unlicensed 
Led Zeppelin or other products that are copyrighted or trademarked that are 
being sold in 
mass quantities for profit they can bring very real and legal grief down on the 
offending 
producers, sellers and disributors through the authorities.

For example, 
If any list members would choose to trade live Led Zeppelin music on FBO, it's 
usually an 
issue of fan appreciation and fair copy use for the most part. I see that as a 
tenable and 
reasonable education of the public about Led Zeppelin's music. To the best of 
my knowledge 
Jimmy Page doesn't care and neither does Robert Plant as long as it's not for 
profit and it's 
more like the one on one or educational level numbers of a hundred copies or 
less. We've not 
heard much from Jonesey. But I think if he were really concerned he would have 
said something 
by now. And I've not heard any big gripes from Bonzo's estate published have 
you?

In direct contrast -  as an example of the unlicensed t-shirt situation:
I had the unfortunate opportunity to see tragic consequences happen to some 
close acquaintances 
in the printed sportswear industry on a national scale over this nearly exact 
same issue a 
number of years ago.
The only difference was that situation was one in which the rock bands whose 
images and 
symbols were being used were still active and touring and their licensing 
agents took great 
issue with bootleg printers trying to cut in on their profits.
That's why I'm relaying this information to you.
When it's their livlihoods and it's what pays their bills, I'd stay out of it 
unless I had 
paid my licensing fee. The only way around that might be unless it said in the 
small print 
(really small print on the t-shirt)

A fan's tribute to Led Zeppelin

and I was only printing a handful of shirts i.e. no more than fifteen which is 
the industry 
standard for a minimum print run.

Led Zeppelin is still big business.

A hundred Led Zeppelin Four Symbols shirts is a big run in the custom printed 
sportswear 
industry. How do I know that? Because Dale worked as a major designer in that 
industry 
regionally and nationally for over seven years in the past and I was employed 
in that 
industry at one time as a production artist as well. He had to turn down a good 
number of 
requests from prospective customers to stay out of licensed product violation 
issues. 

Someone from Led Zeppelin's former members' respective business agents could be 
having 
their hand out for a licensing fee if they felt like bothering with it. Do I 
want to take 
that chance personally? No.

Let me qualify the situation.
Small lots of fan appreciation art pieces that are produced as a tribute to Led 
Zeppelin 
are a very different situation from big production counterfeit product runs for 
strictly 
commercial purposes. Because fan appreciation art is created with a different 
intent, it 
is considered to occupy a very different niche. Giving away something to 
educate people 
about Led Zeppelin is much different than selling people something because you 
just want 
to cash in on their fame. Dale and I have produced some unique examples of fan 
appreciation 
art that are part of our private collection. We brought those to the 98 Zepfest 
in Cleveland. 
We had considered going into commercial level production, but we stopped when 
it became 
evident that the licensing issue was an obstacle.
One of the qualifying elements for fan appreciation art is that it's produced 
as one of a 
kind or very limited minimum runs. Art prints beyond pulling proofs are usually 
printed in a 
run of ten to fifteen or no number greater than what it costs to produce the 
work for labor 
and materials at the going rate.
With reference to the offer that had been discussed over the weekend on FBO. 
Let me say this,
one hundred Four Symbols one color direct printed t-shirts is certainly not 
going to cost two 
thousand dollars to produce, even taking increased costs for shirts and silk 
screen materials 
and labor due to inflation into consideration.
Way back when Winterland had the general license for printed Led Zeppelin and 
Page and Plant shirts.
Who owns the license now? I don't know, I think I'd play it safe and ask first.


All I can say is don't get your cat ticked off and then leave one of those nice 
embroidered 
Zeppelin jackets spoken of above where it where it could be abused by the said 
vexed kitty 
cat's urinary or business end of its digestive tract.
As far as the rest nobody gives a flying rat's (insert your own chosen name of 
body part here).
Those beautiful denim Zep jackets were a enough of a large scale venture and 
available in 
enough places that my estimation is someone paid their licensing fee to the 
agents representing 
Led Zeppelin's business interests at the time.
So I'd wear it anywhere if I had one. 
Happy Zepping,
Shar