Re: Theory of Musical Relativity, Zep, Hendrix, Beatles

[Weiser <weiser@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

At 11:21 AM 11/29/01 +0000, Jeremy Mixer wrote:
>Shar-

>> The Beatles were NEVER merely a teen idol phenomenon.
>> They were the heralds of the cultural revolution of the '60's.
>
>They weren't merely just that, but they WERE just that, especially in
>their early days. They were nothing more then  a British pop band on their
>early albums.

Here Jeremy you don't have your time line straight.
The Beatles were'nt a pop band.
They were a four/four beat rock band that had been cleaned up a bit by
Brian Epstein. Brian tried to pigeonhole them into this cutesey thing that
didn't last but about 18 months before they broke free of the fetters and
began pushing the envelope. You're confusing bands that followed in their
wake with the Beatles themselves and that's an enormous mistake from a
musical historical perspective. You didn't live through the phenomenon
first hand, so your perception of it is aggregate not linear timewise.
These people weren't manufactured. Groomed and polished, but not manufactured.
They'd paid their dues. When I saw the Beatles play, THEY ROCKED.
Pop bands don't rock - they merely perform their songs.

>> the Beatles were genuine instrumental musicians of great original talent
>> and charismatic and compelling singers. Their biggest problem playing live
>> was that professional sound systems were woefully inadequate to counter the
>> incessant audience screams that met their slightest gestures.
>
>Yeah because they were a teenybopper band :)

Thanks for the smiley,
but kid you're wrong. The Beatles were never a teeny bopper band. They were
a cultural phenomenon that exploded around the entire globe in a way that
no other musical performers singly or otherwise had ever done before.
That my dear little radio personality is not 
"a teeny bopper band"

And NO their equipment was'nt inadequate because they were a teeny bopper
band.

There was NO public address or electric amplification equipment in
existence at that time adequate to playing 10,000 to 40,000 plus seat
venues for any musicians.
Even Jimmy Page was still amping with Vox AC30's as late as spring 1970.
The first really decently amped venue I witnessed was the Birds, Airplane
and B.B. King at the IU Bikathon weekend that same spring. West Coast Sound
brought forth the amps. ELP and Pink Floyd's techie people refined the
quantity amplification ideas by pushing the envelope by going after the
elusive square sine wave reproduction quality. And I really can't leave out
the Moody Blues when it came to quality amplification.
The Beatles stopped short in the touring routine
because their ideas were a little too far ahead of where the technology
was. ELP's sound people
worked on getting the quantity and quality equation to work by rethinking
crossovers, band equalization, power filtering etc. Then when they reached
a plateau, Zep snapped up ELP's sound people cause they wanted the best too.
The Beatles ended their touring in 1965 due to the fact that there was'nt
any practical equipment available that would allow them to be heard over
the noise of the crowds. Then when they started doing the studio
multitracking that couldn't be duplicated onstage that led them another
step beyond returning to the stage. This is back in the days of 4 track
studio stereo. Look at the jump between Beatles '65 and "Sergeant Pepper's
Lonely Heart's Club Band."
I was fortunate enough to hear genuine reel to reel outtakes of Sergeant
Pepper's at a by invititation summer fine arts workshop. It was obvious
there were no technical adjuncts to reproducing on the stage what had been
achieved in the studio.  You have to understand in the mid 60's vinyl
albums were often released in monaural and stereo. Sound technology was
nothing like it is today. You have a real misconception about the Beatles
as a presence and a force in musical history and you need to overcome your
tendency to lump them in with present day boy bands. There is no comparison.
 
>The reason I write this note is because I am really perplexed as to why
>you seemed to have written a long note trying to argue with me about my
>comments. And that is fine, nothing like a good discussion or debate.
>However, your entire post really seemed to parelell the point I was trying
>to make in two paragraphs and that was basically this-
>
>The Beatles were the 60's band that all the kids were into.

And here you're wrong. All the kids were'nt into the Beatles.
It was a situation of diverse interests, that mapped out in a number of
directions. But of all the directions, The Beatles turned everybody's heads,
not just the kids.
>
>Now it is N Sync, Backstreet Boys, Britney, etc, all kinds of pure crap.
>THAT is what the equivilent audience is buying today.

I wouldn't equivocate the audiences either. Time has changed and there's no
pending cultural revolution going on now as there was in the 60's.
I would suggest you watch "Hard Day's Night" to get some insight on that
situation. There's a scene where George wanders into a promotional agency
that is very apropos. 

I agree with you there's a lot of very substandard music that manages to
get out every year. The radio industry can push all they want.
When Michelle wakes up in the morning she gets the classical station.
Bruckner, Handel, and sometimes "Roll over Beethoven and tell..." Ooops that's
a Beatles, I mean a Chuck Berry..."

Zep did not spring out of a vacuum. Jimmy knew what sound he wanted to create
and dared to do it. But it wouldn't have happened if the sound technology
hadn't kept pace with his mental map of what he wanted to build with his
musical frameworks.

I think we're in basic agreement. But I really want you to catch the drift
of all the fine tuning at a level so that you get a bit fuller perspective
and a greater understanding, because the greater understanding is what
continues to elude you. And you're no use to the cause of music until you
reach that level.
So get on it kid.
I wrote this last night as George was breathing his last hours...
Don't you ever again lump the Beatles with the likes of the stupid
establishment hacks, may you learn that some people are true to themselves.
Shar