Re: Bonham's drumming

[Ed Zeppelin <grab1196@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

 Eh...I've just got to jump all over this.

>I used the wrong wording in my little review.  Bonham did have STYLE, just
>not STYLE as in the sense of, how can i put it, jazz. 

 Well, that's like saying Chuck Yeager had style, he just didn't have any
style as a chef. Or Jodie Foster has style, just not any style as a pole
vaulter. Who's going to argue with you? John Bonham was no more a jazz
drummer than Jodie Foster is a track and field star.

> I feel jazz is the
>backbone of all music, especially percussion. 

 That's certainly a valid opinion, even though you haven't really backed it
up at all. What exactly makes jazz the backbone of all music? Does that
mean all music performed and recorded before the advent of jazz was somehow
"not music?" Does that mean anyone who doesn't play jazz is not a musician?
Robert and Jimmy would probably tell you blues is the backbone of all
music, and Bonzo might say funk and soul are the backbone of contemporary
percussion (I'd be inclined to agree). But you could just as easily say
polka is where it's at, and deride anyone who doesn't play good polka
rhythms. I think you're judging Bonham's drumming from within the wrong
paradigm.

 >I understand that one of
>Bonham's great influences was Buddy Rich, as I definantly can hear in his 30
>min. solos, which I find superb.

 Actually, Bonham's biggest influences aren't very hard to hear - Ginger
Baker (who was admittedly the "bridge" between rock drumming and jazz
drumming), Carmine Appice, and Motown/soul/funk. Almost anyone who plays
drums has to count Rich as an influence, at least if they were around when
he was alive - he was simply the most famous and visible drummer around. I
don't hear it in Bonham's actual playing though. Even Bonzo's attitude
about long solos comes more from Ginger Baker, who was the first rock
drummer to make the drums a lead instrument.

> However, in his playing during songs, I
>find that there is such great use of crescendos (sp?) and 'tension' (such as
>playing the ride in certain places to convey a certain emotional state in
>the song e.g. Since I've Been Loving You), but there is no real variation in
>the songs he plays.  

 Ok. Any examples? Which songs sound the same to you?
 Bonzo was operating within the rock framework - almost every Zeppelin song
is in 4/4 time or some derivative, with the exceptions of the blues songs
which are in the standard 3/4 or 6/8 blues meters, and the The Ocean, which
is in 7/8. That framework imposes some natural limits on just how "out
there" his drumming could get. There's only so much you can do with 4/4.
Like Eric said, of course Bonham doesn't have the same "style" as someone
playing in 8/11, or the same style of John Fishman playing an extended
improvised free-time nonsensical vacuum solo.
 This reminds me of an arguement I had with a friend a few years ago. He
complained that all Tom Petty's songs sounded the same to him. I replied,
"Well, every song has the same guy with the same voice playing the same
guitar with the same band. Of course they're going to sound similar on the
surface." JPJ has even commented on this, saying (paraphrased), "Being just
a guitar/bass/drums band we had to do some things to keep it from sounding
the same all the time." 
 To understand the genius of John Bonham you have to see how he worked
*within* that 4/4 rock rhythm framework.

>I do think that he definantly was a pioneer, he had his
>own style (LOUD and HARD), but that style was kept throughout every Zeppelin
>tune. 
 
 Spoken like a typical "II is my favorite album" Zeppelin fan. Another JPJ
quote (again paraphrased), "All the drummers that try to copy Bonham are
all 'Whomp, BASH! With John there were always these little things going on.
He was a subtle drummer." Don't fall into the trap of saying, "Zeppelin was
good because they had a loud drummer, a fast guitarist, and a singer with a
high voice." That's why Zeppelin imitators fail, because they can't get
past Black Dog. There is so much going on, rhythmically, in Achilles Last
Stand, that it's impossible to even take it all in. The accents and
buildups during Stairway are perfect for the song. Down By the Seaside is
certainly not your typical Zeppelin drum tune, and neither is Bron-Y-Aur
Stomp. Spoons? Did he play the spoons loud and hard too? I could go on and on.

 >Right there, I just opened myself up to MANY criticisms.  You will
>probably say 'well, what about The Crunge, Gallows Pole, Four Sticks, etc.
>but I feel that if you take away the extra two sticks, they're all really
>just the same.

 It's funny, you named two songs here that are some of Bonham's most "out
there" rhythm tracks. The Crunge is simply incredible, completely removed
from anything else he has ever played. That beat is not even describable.
As for Four Sticks, that one song is the one I consider Bonham's most
original work of rhythmic genius. No other drummer in the world, no matter
how many sticks they have in their hands, can even come close to playing
this song. Even Michael Lee adapted it so he could pull it off. It
mystifies me how Bonham did it! How did he come up with it!? No drum track
in the history of rock sounds anything like it! 

 See ya later liquidator,
 Ed Zeppelin