Enough is enough

[jacqueb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Hello,
That's it!  Do you wonder why fantastic members like
Jeff "SOTD" Lybarger leaves a list like this??? Answer: the whining,
the acrimony, the negativity, the Grudgeholding, the personal flames

> situation by dragging this onto the list. Jeez, Paul aren't you doing
> the very thing that you've accused me of doing?

Question #1:
What makes either of the two/three of you think anyone on this list
cares
about this debate?

 

> Paul, if I've understood you correctly, what you're saying is that as
> Jean has been on this list for some time, she is immune to criticism,
> because she has some sort of special status in your opinion.

I'll answer that for you. PERSONAL FLAME WARS HAVE NO PLACE ON THIS
LIST!
COMPRENDE??? Doesn't matter if it's against Jean, Thor, Jesus, etc.
It has no place here! What good is it? What great list benefit did we
gain?
Other than making Jean feel really good about herself, I'm sure. ;) The 
people arguing about Jean conceded that she isn't going to change her
ways
anyway! 
What I am saying is this in a nutshell: if it is a *personal* flame and
has no Zep
relevancy whatsoever (not even tangentially) then it has no place here. 
Please all you folks who need to vent (this *is* supposed to be like
a hobby and a place to relieve stress) go exercise, go run, go do
*something*
with yourselves. [I'll bite my tongue on what you can really do to
yourself.]
 
Ask yourself before you post, "Is what I'm posting beneficial to the
list?"

Think about it, we have a Led Zeppelin "Legends" special to watch with
new
unseen footage, we have the Symphonic Led Zeppelin CD, we have the new 
BBC sessions, WLL video, we have the suspense of a new album coming out
and a tour
to accompany it and folks just aren't happy. What's the problem?
Oh, and I forgot JPJ's upcoming solo album...

> you drag this onto the list. Jeez, Paul who is continuing the "childish
> assault?

It only takes *one* person to stop it! Doesn't it? One is not going to
argue if the other shuts up about it, no?

And it only took one person under Zerxes' policy to stop these sort of
senseless, useless and sometimes hurtful diatribes. Sometimes I remember
DG fondly, believe me!!! What are we going to do about these personal
flame
wars, rely of people's judgment and good behaviour? Boh!

If it wouldn't rile the list up to epic proportions I would do a 
RFD (Request for Discussion) to end personal flaming on this list that
has
NZC. 


> Paul writes:
> >  How else can you justify a relatively new
> > contributor publicly telling Jean that she is "widely reveiled by
> > so many on this list".

> Paul, it is justified through the notion that:
> 1) This is a public forum where opinion and criticism should be allowed
> to flourish.


No, no, no! Where does it say that personal flaming should be allowed to
flourish???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Lately all that has been flourishing here is a bunch of crap, in my
opinion.

I thought that the Billy Bob Pieper post from the Days of DG was out of
line
(personal flaming Zerxes)
and since that post sowed the seeds of this new list, it's almost as if
that's
considered *acceptable* behaviour. To have a post solely about Jean
Lorrah
and her posting technique is simply disgusting. To post it anonymously
hiding
behind your computer screen is even more cowardly (hear me, Camilla?).

> 2)The number of letters received in support of my criticism of Jean is
> 37:4 in favor of my opinions and criticism.

So what??? Maybe I would have agreed privately as well. That does not 
make it public fodder now, does it???


> An opinion is defined as a
> well-thought out conclusion- now based on the mail that I've received in
> support of my statements, I believe that my opinion stating that "Jean
> is reveiled" (although "openly" is a mistake on my part) has validity to
> it.

Hahahahhahahha!!! You people! How can you have such little compassion
for
another human being? And how, pray tell, does that justify it being on
this
list? 
 
> Paul writes:
> > These individuals like Carmilla and
> > Scott, who perpetuate the litany of non Zep related personal attacks,
> > are of far greater detriment to the list in my opinion.
> 
> Paul, it is clear that it is YOUR intention to not only dissuade people
> from expressing an opinion or criticism differing from your own but that
> you'd like to see us censored in some sense. 

I would like personally to see all NZC personal flaming come to a 
quick and efficient conclusion. 


>Paul, you remind me of the
> Politically Correct Brigade, in the sense that when an idea, opinion,
> criticism upsets your delicate sensibilities, you'd seek to silence them
> or censor them-you SIR are of greater detriment to the list in that
> you'd seek to squash the right of any of us to express a dissenting
> opinion or criticism of another.

And to you (all of you that hold this opinion of personal flaming Jean
and
anyone else and thinking it has ANY PUBLIC RELEVANCY to this list) I
say:

You are behaving more self-important than Jean ever did nattering on and
on about things which have no place here. My sensibilities are not 
delicate and I'm not speaking for Paul. However you all are a part of
the 
problem here. There is a feeling/trend/movement of one-upmanship and
personal putdowns on this list. Lately these things have been done with
no taste, no wit, no relevany and no care for other peoples feeling
or the rules of the Charter which strongly advise posts have Zeppelin
content.
Yes, and this post is part of the "problem" too, but I'm looking for a 
solution...

Question #2: Are you criticizing a point dealing w/ Led Zeppelin or are
you
just criticizing something like Jean's writing style? [People used to
bitch about Zerxes asking Tom (thru members) to cut down on his EE
Cumming
style of writing. How much like him are you sounding now?]



> ****Badgeholders**** If you're tired of reading this stuff on the list,
> please inform people like Paul and Jason who privately initiate
> arguments, and then drag these things on to the list- that you don't
> want to read it. This will stop when individuals like Paul and Jason
> stop dragging this bullshit onto the list.

Why don't you *all* just stop?
Quit using your computer screen as a shield and venting all your
life's frustration on the Internet. If you wouldn't criticise and say
certain things to a listmember's face, then I wouldn't say them in
public
e-mails. It's just common courtesy, not some kind of virginal
sensibilities.
Some of you folks are just beyond rude, negative, whiny and ungrateful
and yes,
I'd tell you so too.


Love,
Theolyn